Episode 7: Help Earth - Spearheading Space Sustainability

Season Two | Episode 7

Help Earth: Spearheading Space Sustainability

Can creating a new space economy also “Help Earth?” Learn how Lockheed Martin is developing unique space-based technologies that will help address some of Earth’s toughest sustainability challenges.

Thank you to our guest on this episode of Lockheed Martin Space Makers for her time and expertise:

Cassie Lee from Lockheed Martin

Episode Notes

To dig deeper into some of the topics referenced in today’s episode, please follow these links:

Understanding Climate Change with Cassie Lee

Hope and Opportunity: Raising the Science of Space at the Speed of Innovation

GOES-R Series: Next Generation Weather Satellites

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Host: Welcome to Lockheed Martin Space Makers, the podcast that takes you out of this world for an inside look at some of our most challenging and innovative missions. My name is Ben, and I'll be your host.

[00:00:14] In season two, we explore Lockheed Martin's bold new vision of a future we call "Space 2050." We partnered with our Advanced Technology Center to bring you an inside look at the innovations and technologies we are developing to make that future a reality. Because getting there is just the beginning.

[00:00:35] Lockheed Martin is dedicating a lot of its resources to making the future of space a reality, and this begs the simple question, why? Why are we putting all this effort into investing in the unknown of an incredibly risky venture? This episode is all about space, but the answer is much closer to home. My colleague Natalya Oleksik takes a closer look at why space?

00:01:01] Natalya: We have a lot to talk about. So we'll just start right away by asking, can you give us your full name and your title?

[00:01:07] Cassie Lee: Yeah, I'm Cassie Lee. And I have just taken a new role leading a brand new component of business development in Civil Commercial Space. And we are calling it Climate Intelligence. And so it's a program that takes elements of what we're doing in weather and earth science, and it takes elements from some of the capabilities that Lockheed has around the company and brings it together to help understand our changing planet.

[00:01:29] Natalya: And your career trajectory, to borrow a little bit of space phraseology is maybe not the average one. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:01:37] Cassie Lee: Sure. Yeah, I have a very non-traditional background. And, you know, I think that's one of the things that I got really excited about coming to Lockheed is bringing some of those external experiences. So I started very traditionally. I was a propulsion engineer at NASA working at Kennedy Space Center, got to work in the Space Shuttle main engine, which is a beautiful piece of machinery, which also dates me.

[00:01:57] Natalya: [laughs]

[00:01:57] Cassie Lee: But it was a wonderful experience. I did a tour of duty over in the Public Affairs Office during return to flight for the shuttle, given my technical background and just my interest in talking to people. And I was back then, the NASA public affairs, that the content they were putting out wasn't entirely as compelling as it is today. And so, I thought this is something that I might consider as a next step in my career. So I actually left NASA and went to graduate school here in Colorado for journalism. And I did the first crossover degree in journalism in aerospace, where I had aerospace engineering professors as my advisory. And I did a lot of aerospace-related projects in communications.

[00:02:36] And through that work, ended up doing media and public affairs at SpaceX during their early days and then kind of missed the engineering side. So I went back over to what is now Sierra Space and was one of the first 10 engineers on Dream Chaser, of which Lockheed is a part of that team, and grew from systems engineering into business development, and really realized, okay, there's kind of a cool balance between this communications area of expertise and these fully technical roles.

[00:03:00] And as I was able to progress through that, got to start their advanced programs team and just started to realize there's a lot of really cool things in the in-between space, taking things that we think of as traditional space architectures and doing unique things. And so basically worked my way from the bottom of the rocket all the way up, and then uh was asked to join the team of Paul Allen over in Vulcan. Paul has since passed. But you know, he was one of the co-founders of Microsoft, and he was really passionate about using space as an element of trying to better the planet.

[00:03:34] So, my role was to engage with his philanthropy team and his tech team and bring space base data as an element to solving really hard global problems. And that is where I first got exposed to climate and the climate community. And it was an extraordinary opportunity and really challenged my perception of the role that space can and should play in the world.

[00:03:55] And so, unfortunately, Paul lost his battle with cancer. And so, I was approached by another funder to help start another climate-based organization that used optical imagery from space to help empower hyperlocal change for journalists and educators, but also for policymakers. And in that time, I moved back to Colorado, and I'm really passionate about the aerospace corridor that we have here. I think this is such a unique area of the country when it comes to aerospace expertise. And the ability to be physically here and engage with this community was something that I was really looking for.

[00:04:28] So, you know, I looked at Lockheed Martin, and I thought, it's pretty hard when you're on the philanthropic side to engage with the space community. And, you know, I thought if I could get a company like Lockheed to be energized about the opportunity to engage with some of these non-traditional partners to solve some of these problems that are really complex and global in their nature, could really set the stage for helping move our industry forward. And so, I was lucky enough to get brought on. Originally, I was advanced programs lead for weather and earth science in civil and commercial space, where we're developing the next-gen satellites for instruments for NOAA and NASA, some of our traditional customers. And then they let me kind of start getting creative and engaging in some non-traditional business, engaging with some non-traditional customers. And, it turns out, we have way more capability than I could have even imagined to help understand the changing planet. So from that, the Climate Intelligence Team was born.

[00:05:24] Natalya:  When did you eat breakfast during this entire time?

[00:05:28] Cassie Lee:  [laughs]

[00:05:28] Natalya:  I mean honestly.

[00:05:28] Cassie Lee:  Oh, it's you know, it's been...

[00:05:29] Natalya:  Or anything.

[00:05:30] Cassie Lee: No, it's been, it has been a lot of fun. And that's what's been really surprising to me about the aerospace industry is all of the amazing things that have developed and the opportunities that have opened up. I think we are more willing than ever to admit that it takes all areas of expertise to create the space-based economy and the space for Earth activities that are necessary to move our entire planet forward and to move us off our planet.

[00:05:57] One thing that I'm really passionate about as well is, you know, empowerment in our industry and bringing those non-traditional voices to bear or voices that have been traditionally marginalized in our community. And during this time, a very inspirational figure in my life and a dear friend named Brooke Owens, who was working in Office of Management and Budget, managing NASA's budget, she also lost her battle with cancer. And so, we started the Brooke Owens Fellowship program in her honor. And that's become the largest fellowship for women in aerospace in the world.

[00:06:27] And we have a handful of spin-offs, including the Matthew Isakowitz Fellowship, which is named after another dear friend of ours, and that empowers commercial space excellence. A lot of extraordinary folks, both men and women, are recipients of that really prestigious fellowship. And then, we've also started the Patti Grace Smith Fellowship, which is to empower black excellence in space. And that has been an extraordinary legacy of Patti Grace Smith, who is a first associated administrator for Commercial Spaceflight at the FAA. And then we have our first spin-off up in Canada now. And we're nurturing all kinds of opportunities and ideas. We've been very lucky to be the recipient of some very generous grants from Jeff Bezos and local legend here, Dylan Taylor. And so we're really excited about the future holds for that. And, and Lockheed has been a strong supporter of that organization from the beginning. They've hosted several of our initial summits. And now we have several rookies, as we call them, that are working for us full time. And we've got two extraordinary fellows that will be joining us this summer as well.

[00:07:30] Natalya: That all fits so well with what we're here to discuss. And that is future of space, and all that entails, which includes how everything we do up in space impacts Earth and how we might be able to leverage the technologies up there to bring positive change to Earth and solve some of the toughest problems we look at as humanity here. What is the greatest benefit of us going to space for Earth?

[00:07:52] Cassie Lee: Oh, I love this question. And I think that being at Lockheed Martin has actually really expanded my thinking around this particular topic. Obviously, there is an inspirational aspect to the overview effect, looking back on our planet, seeing one unified civilization and not country borders or city borders or state borders or political divide. And obviously, there's emotional, and I think, even psychological effect to what that can bring. You know, off-planet life requires international cooperation. We've seen that from the beginning with the International Space Station. And there is a lot of exciting things that are happening there that has a positive impact here on Earth.

[00:08:30] In terms of the direct applications, I can think of a whole handful. I mean, from a climate perspective, a lot of what we're doing in terms of exploration helps us inform our understanding of our own planet, especially Venus. Venus, they think; scientists believe that it started off as a planet much like ours, and due to some catastrophic greenhouse gas effects, that is now an uninhabitable planet where I believe that can melt lead at the surface.

[00:08:55] And so we've got two missions from civil and commercial space that will be going up in the next decade, called DAVINCI and VERITAS, to understand that information further and help us get a better handle on maybe what the historical journey was for the planet to go from potentially habitable to uninhabitable, you know, with this greenhouse gas-rich atmosphere, and certainly that will help us understand Earth observation.

[00:09:17] And you know, at Lockheed Martin, we have been part of the weather and earth science community from the beginning. We launched back in the early 1960s TIROS-1, which was the first weather satellite that went up. And since then, we have a really long, really proud tradition uh of Earth weather, and also space weather, which the more we learn about both and the more we realize that they are connected, and the buses for NOAA's GOES-T constellation, which provides us with, you know, our free and open data about the Earth's weather, some of the really exciting instruments that we've built, one of them is on as part of the GOES-T program. It's called the geostationary lightning mapper. That is an extraordinary instrument.

[00:09:56] And what we're finding is that we're just now starting to understand all the benefits of understanding lightning. And so we've been working through a program called the Frontier Development Lab with NASA and some fascinating and very talented postdoctoral students, as well as our friends over at Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Center on how we might look at predictive lightning and how we might clean up the data that we're getting to help us understand the dense, the flash density and to say, "Okay, is this, is this leading up to a storm? Is helps us understanding severe weather better?"

[00:10:27] And we're also even going as far as inquiring of that data, you know, how do we connect that with lightning strikes that might ignite wildfires. And there are a lot of strings that we can pull a lot of things that we can impact just to get smarter on Earth science from the things that we have going on. We've also for NASA, we're building the GeoCarb instrument. So GeoCarb stands for Geostationary Carbon Observatory, and that instrument will be going up and will be really the first geostationary steering instrument over North America. And we'll also get a little bit of Central and South America, where we will be able to monitor carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, methane, and then we'll also get a product called solar-induced fluorescence, which will help us understand vegetation health, biodiversity, and drought.

[00:11:13] So from that data, you know, can we learn more? Can we be part of a, of an ecosystem of information that helps people understand more about the planet that we have in front of us? Obviously, we're very strong in earth science as well. And so, we'll continue forward with some of NASA's new Explorer missions. They've got some really exciting science that they're asking the commercial enterprise to come forward and bring some ideas for some cutting edge technologies there.

[00:11:38] And then I would be remiss if I didn't talk about, you know, in terms of benefits from space, things like microgravity science and protein crystal growth. We can build, I mean, grow perfect crystals up in space, which empowers, you know, our understanding of antibiotics and different medications. You know, microgravity science helps us understand, you know, without if you remove that one constant of gravity, more of our biological system, so it actually changes the way that things behave, whether it's bacteria or virus, the way genes are expressed or not expressed are some extraordinary science that can be done on orbit to help us here on Earth. And so there's a lot of really exciting crossover in terms of how space then benefits Earth. And it, goes beyond Tang and Velcro to really tangible, meaningful things.

[00:12:22] Natalya: So Tang and Velcro, and you are talking about us becoming an off-planet species. And you have just named so many elements that will change our lives as we move that way. Are we going to get there? Are we going to become an off-planet species?

[00:12:38] Cassie Lee: Absolutely, certainly, if my team has anything to say about it, where it's going to be soon, we are developing commercial, it's called Star lab, it's that we've partnered with Voyager Space and Nanoracks and Lockheed Martin are working together on a commercial space station, which is going to be a very exciting opportunity and open that access to off-planet life a lot more folks than today.

[00:13:00] We're also looking at lunar infrastructure. So we're looking at how we can create the infrastructure necessary on the moon's surface so that we can empower people to go and create economy out there that has longevity and is a place that people can go and live and thrive. The role that we're playing now is we're looking at navigation, communication systems, or looking at habitats, energy, and then mobility. And it's so exciting because I think there is a kind of an analogy to some of those severe environments that we will have to experience and prepare for and design for, whether on the moon or at a long-duration space flight opportunity, that can actually really inform, again things here on Earth, things like addressing resource scarcity. And, you know, having some of these technologies take a leapfrog. And if we can survive the lunar night with a rover, we can probably take that same rover, some variant thereof, and survive in the Arctic in a way that we've never had the technology to do before so we can better understand our planet.

[00:14:03] Natalya: So let's get down to basics on that. We're going to be gathering data hand over fist. How do we disseminate that data, get it back to Earth and help Earth with that data? And then, in that vein, what is the most pressing need on Earth can be helped from our space technology? Is there one? If so, what would that be?

[00:14:20] Cassie Lee: Yeah, so you're touching on two extraordinary topics. Right now, we live in a very generous planet where we have a lot of space agencies that are providing data for us free and open data. But there is a barrier to entry to using that data. And this is just, this is Earth observation data, not even the kind of data that you're talking about that's going to be necessary to help us really prepare to be off-planet species. And so there is a lot that's happening right now. And we're really excited within our advanced programs team and with our partners in mission solutions and other organizations around Lockheed.

[00:14:52] We are committed to expanding our knowledge of artificial intelligence and machine learning to take that data and to turn it into actionable information. And we believe that as we look and consider our changing planet, right, where our risk profile, our threats are changing. And it's a very tricky, complex environment.

[00:15:12] I mean, I think the most pressing, right, is our atmosphere. And we have to stop polluting the atmosphere so that the mitigation that we come up with can then be effective, right? So we have to stop the actions that we have now in terms of the quantity of CO2 and methane that are going into the atmosphere so that we can hopefully start to get a handle on sort of mitigating the issues as they stand today. But it is that change, it is the change that's already happened, that then creates these downstream issues and whether it's severe weather, whether it's food scarcity, freshwater scarcity, whether it's climate migration, because the people have to relocate because their land is flooding or their land has become drought-ridden or because conflicts are starting to happen over the changing resources and that has created a need for migration. You know, it's all of these downstream things because our planet is changing, and it is such a complex environment. And it is one that affects I think, everything from business to geopolitics to survival of individual human beings.

[00:16:12] Natalya: Okay, and let's go back to something you mentioned earlier about Venus.

[00:16:16] Cassie Lee: Yeah.

[00:16:16] Natalya: So Venus was a lot like Earth, and it has changed. And we have two technologies, two missions; it sounds like that will help us understand why. Do we already know enough about that to draw parallels to how Earth is changing?

[00:16:31] Cassie Lee: It is become a very new and a very exciting area of study because we have an example of physical example of what happens when there is a massive greenhouse gas event. And I believe there are a great deal of hypotheses around this from a scientific perspective. And I think Lockheed is excited to be part of the solution and try to figure out how we can do more. I think that's another really exciting element of space. It gives us perspective to understand and learn from different bodies that have gone through different changes when we think about how old our planet is and we think about how, how old Venus is, I mean, we're the tiniest blip right on the radar of the life of our planet. And if we can learn enough, if we can unpack some of those unknown questions and start to find answers, I think space has a really important role to play in that.

[00:17:18] Natalya: So you've touched on studying Venus, and understanding what led to the current atmosphere on Venus, and how we can take that knowledge and apply it to Earth. All of these things are revolutionary in their own way. Is there one that stands above the rest at this time?

[00:17:32] Cassie Lee: Yeah, I think for me, what's so fascinating, and I think I can speak for my colleagues too, it's the inner connectivity, right? I mean, I think space has always felt like unless you work in this industry, it can feel a little untouchable, it can feel like a very high barrier to entry. And I think what's extraordinary is how much we are learning from other areas of expertise.

[00:17:55] And I think we owe a lot to the commercial space revolution, the fact that space has now become good business, and not just interesting business, that becomes a good investment, not just an interesting investment. And we're having to respond a little bit more like a commercial environment. And so to do that, you have to open your doors. You have to bring in that diversity of opinion, diversity of experience, diversity of thought. We are not going to make the advances that we need without understanding new ways of thinking. We're not going to be able to develop successful off-planet species that contain communities of people from all over the world without that kind of thinking, without that sociology, without that, you know, geopolitical intelligence, without the legal structure, without understanding what units we're going to use.

[00:18:41] I mean, there are so many interesting and exciting things. And so as we open our doors and open our aperture, and then that gives us the freedom to look among the technologies and the areas of expertise that have already been very well developed and bring those in a collective. So I held the first Climate Tech Summit last year here at Lockheed. And basically, it was a show and tell, you know, reached out to some people that I thought had not only extraordinary technology that they developed for Lockheed for some of our traditional customers, which is amazing. And they really challenged our customers, really challenged us to think in a unique way. But then how could we take that and potentially pivot that to help understand some element of our changing planet? And just by bringing these folks together in a virtual room and brainstorming and being creative about that, some very interesting things have come out of that, some very interesting areas um of development. And so again, I just think it's about breaking down the silos of our traditional aerospace community and turning it into something bigger. And that's what's so exciting. That makes sort of the possibilities endless on what we will be able to accomplish as a community.

[00:19:46] Natalya: Let's talk about sustainability, and let's talk about what that looks like for not only lunar colonies but back here on Earth. What does that look like on the moon? And then how does Mars change the game?

[00:19:57] Cassie Lee: Oh I love this question because I don't know. But yeah, it's a great conversation, though. And I think sustainability is a mindset. And we talk about sustainability here on Earth. And certainly that I think is pretty well understood in terms of getting into close cycles of cleaner energy and renewable food sources, renewable resources, especially in the energy sector, I think we could do a lot, transportation waste. There is a lot there that is being developed now. And we can certainly do more. I think we're very strong in our core sectors. But how that actually-

[00:20:28] Natalya: Translates?

[00:20:28] Cassie Lee: Yeah, translates into the day, the decisions of the day, it can that, it's the same that we were talking about before in terms of it takes a lot to turn the ones and zeros of space into actionable information. And I think the, this understanding what we need to do individually to contribute to a more sustainable future is that's a challenging question and one we're all faced with. We have to have a complete shift of how we think and technology tends to be the way that this society today makes those leaps forward. You know, and             as we're thinking about not only what needs to happen here on our planet, we also have to think about what's happening in low Earth orbit and in space. And like I was saying before, sustainability is a mindset.

[00:21:01] Natalya: Yeah.

[00:21:02] Cassie Lee: And right now, we're in the business of trying to clean it up, right? You've got companies that are coming out with trying to refurbish satellites in orbit, so don't have to send a new one, fix a solar array, refill a propulsion tank, or push something into the right orbit. We're finding that our changing atmosphere is actually also changing the way that space debris acts when it reenters our atmosphere. Things are not burning up as completely as they used to, because of the composition of our atmosphere.

[00:21:29] You know, I think we've pretty much come to the conclusion something needs to be done, that we're not on a sustainable trajectory. And what I was saying in terms of the most pressing issues, we can improve where we're at now, so that we can make space for those leapfrog technologies forward, as we're going to be forced into sustainability when we get off-planet, right, when we get into long-duration habitation on-orbit with people that are not seven highly trained, skilled astronauts and cosmonauts. You know, we are going to be forced into places that the resources that human body has evolved to require, they're just not available. So we have to make them, which means that we've got a closed-loop system and there's no resources off our planet. We're still beholden to chemical propulsion. And so if we can get past some of those, I think to me, those are the really exciting things that would help empower our system, this is getting to the heart of resource scarcity on-orbit and translating that back down. And then also being able to improve transportation, including off-planet transportation in a way that's not reliant on chemicals. We've just reached the max of what the, with chemicals that we understand can do.

[00:22:37] Natalya: In other words, the instead of packing a rocket full of chemicals, it might be something like negating gravity entirely, which has nothing to do with propulsion.

[00:22:45] Cassie Lee: Yeah.

[00:22:46] Natalya: Okay.

[00:22:47] Cassie Lee: Yeah. And I think that's what we need to get. I mean, that's just the mindset, right? That's the shift in where we are today to where we need to be. And that goes for all of the issues that we've talked about, that we're trying to address here on our planet. And then once we get there, then we get to have that, that Moore's Law moment, right, where it just keeps getting better and better. But we still haven't unlocked the magic of the microchip, so to speak in the sustainability conversation.

[00:23:08] Natalya: So when, when you get up in the morning and you go about your daily tasks professionally and personally, what excites you the most about this?

[00:23:15] Cassie Lee: Oh, man, I mean, I just I love the fact that I get to be a part of a conversation that says, you know, of the millions and millions of dollars that this company has invested into protecting our war fighters and protecting citizens and property and keeping peace and all the things, pivoting that and saying, "Okay, how do we protect our planet?" That is a just a really exciting thing to unlock. And, you know, looking at some of the technology that we're building for communication and decision making in theater can apply to fighting wildfires.

[00:23:50] And oh, by the way, we happen to have these extraordinary helicopters that can go and help put those fires out. And oh, by the way, we have geospatial intelligence that we've developed for something else all together that will help us understand fire front prediction. It will help us monitor in real time, you know, some of the earth science that we're doing will help us understand biodiversity and fuels for some of these fires. How do we, can make the planet a better place with things we've already invested in? By doing that, we can help the planet move forward because, you know, the demand signal for climate positive tech, I mean it's there, but nobody quite knows what to ask for yet. And that's why I think this conversation is really provocative and should be exciting. And so everyone's got to kind of start from where they're at and say, "Okay, what can my role be? What do I know how to do? How do I bring that forward and help us protect and preserve our planet? How do I help get us off planet and how to help just move the human story forward?" Because I think those are the two main chapters that, that we're going to have to write together.

[00:24:45] Natalya: We know Lockheed Martin is unique. We have so many new entrants to the space economy. A couple of qualities that you see here that we bring to the table at Lockheed Martin that differentiate us from those?

[00:24:55] Cassie Lee: Absolutely. You know, don't get me wrong, I am a huge proponent of commercial space and have been around to watch a lot of these companies get started by people that I deeply admire and enjoy working with. And as space becomes good business, you got traditional business models that start to pop up. So you get organizations that are hyper-focused on solving one element of a problem. And they become the best in the world at it, and they get very good at it, and then they expand their portfolio from there.

[00:25:21] What is amazing about Lockheed is the breadth and depth of expertise that we are sitting on that we can already take and pivot so we can look across things. And so I've thought about why human space flight is important to climate change and understanding how we survive here on our planet, because these are the kind of questions I'm supposed to answer, right? That's my job is to talk with my human space flight colleagues and say, "Okay, what are you developing that I could potentially add as part of our climate intelligence portfolio?"

[00:25:49] And it, it goes beyond space. You know, we have a missiles and fire control division. We have an arrow division that's got some extraordinary ideas and technologies and experience and just thought leaders built into that. We've got rotary mission systems. We've talked about fighting fires and think about pressing climate issues. These are the kinds of things that we have the ability to start to bring together those things. It is this interdisciplinary utility of mission-driven outcomes, that I'd be hard pressed to think of other, another set of companies that could keep up with what Lockheed already has.

[00:26:21] And then I think we're really motivated to be able to identify what the future could look like, and start to bring those thought leaders into thinking about that future, into designing for a future where it then, some of the circumstances that we've described today, so how do we go and then fill in those gaps for a variety of different users, of course, will always serve our traditional customers. We are a trusted thought leader, data provider, hardware provider. How does that then expand into the world of people that need this information about climate? How does this impact philanthropy? How does this impact our financial community? How does this impact anyone that's mission-driven focused that wants the information to go off and solve a hard problem? And Lockheed just is the best place to be I think, for that in today's world.

[00:27:04] Natalya: I have been speaking with Cassie Lee about the future of space, the technologies that we are developing here at Lockheed Martin to get us there, and how those technologies are going to help the future of Earth. Thank you so much for joining us, Cassie.

[00:27:15] Cassie Lee: Thank you. This has been extraordinary. And I am looking so forward to tackling every single topic that we talked about today. And this is a unique place. I mean, this is a, the kind of place that can make those revolutionary changes, and I'm really energized by the direction that I see this company going in terms of opening its aperture to go after some of these really tough global problems.

[00:27:43] Natalya: Technologies developed for space have helped improve life on Earth. However, I'm not sure we Earthlings understand how much space tech has been integrated into our daily lives. Can you imagine what our world would be like without GPS, LASIK eye surgery, air purifiers, camera phones, solar cells, insulin pumps, home insulation, infrared ear thermometers, athletic shoes, workout equipment, and the list goes on and on. With that in mind, just imagine how tech developed for the new space-based future will "Help Earth."

[00:28:15] Cassie talked about a future of humans living and thriving on other planets and moons. Earthlings will have to obtain a level of independence from Earth to make this possible. Join us on our next episode, where we look at how humankind will "untether from Earth" and become Spacelings.

[00:28:32] Host: You've been listening to Cassie Lee who is a space maker. Whether you're a software engineer, systems, engineer, finance, or HR professional, we need space makers like you to make the seemingly impossible missions a reality. Please visit this episode's show notes to learn more about what you just heard in this episode or the careers available at Lockheed Martin. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe so others can find us and follow along for more out of this world stories. To learn more about our missions, products and people, follow our new Twitter handle @LMSpace and visit lockheedmartin.com/space. Join us on the next episode as we introduce you to more space makers.

[00:29:24] Space Makers is a production of Lockheed Martin Space.

[00:29:29] It's executive produced by Pavan Desai.

[00:29:32] Senior producer is Natalya Oleksik.

[00:29:35] Senior producer, writer, and host is Ben Dinsmore.

[00:29:39] Sound design and audio mastered by Julian Giraldo.

[00:29:42] Graphic design by Tim Roesch.

[00:29:44] Marketing and recruiting by Joe Portnoy, Shannon Myers, Mallory Richardson, and Stephanie Dixon.

[00:29:51] A huge thanks to all the communication professionals at Lockheed Martin who helped make these stories possible.

[00:29:56] Thanks for joining us, and see you next time.