Episode 13

Space on Main Street: 

How the Virtuous Cycle of Innovation Will Transform Main Street

Show Notes & Transcript

From high-speed lunar trains, to new ways to play baseball, the future of space will also change Main Street right here on Earth, introducing 3-D printed foods, new medical technologies, self-driving vehicles – and much more life-changing technology -  to our daily lives

Thank you to our guest, Jamie Landers, of Lockheed Martin.  You are a Space Maker.

Related Articles


[00:00:00] Host: Welcome to Lockheed Martin Space Makers, the podcast that takes you out of this world for an inside look at some of our most challenging and innovative missions. My name is Ben, and I'll be your host.

[00:00:14] In season two, we explore Lockheed Martin's bold new vision of a future we call "Space 2050." We partnered with our Advanced Technology Center to bring you an inside look at the innovations and technologies we are developing to make that future a reality. Because getting there is just the beginning.

[00:00:35] From smart cities to new ways to address food scarcity - how will human colonies in space transform life back on Earth? In this episode of Space Makers, My colleague Natalya Oleksik takes a closer look at what the future on Earth may look like with a little help from space.

[00:00:55] Natalya: All right. So Jamie, a couple things. Welcome to Space Makers. So excited to have you here today.

[00:01:00] Jamie Landers: Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be here in studio with you today.

[00:01:03] Natalya: And can you just tell us a little bit about your name and your title, a little bit about what you do right now?

[00:01:08] Jamie Landers: Sure. Absolutely. I'm Jamie Landers. I'm the director Advanced Programs New Business Development at Lockheed Martin Space. My team's really fun. We're the entrepreneurial proactive and productive disruptors inside Lockheed Martin. So that means we look at curiosity, creativity, and entrepreneurial opportunities to identify technologies that we wanna accelerate and advance to make the future a reality today.

[00:01:35] Natalya: Well, that's why we have you here. We wanna hear all about that. You took a little bit of a winding road in your career to get to where you are right now. Can you tell us a little bit about your early career and what brought you to space?

[00:01:47] Jamie Landers: Yeah. Absolutely. I was one of those precocious, little children that knew she wanted to be an astronaut when I was five years old. I actually pretty much told my parents I was gonna go to Space Camp. And I worked to get scholarships. And I went to NASA Space Academy Level I, Level II, and Aviation Challenge.

[00:02:04] That really shaped who I was as a young adult. I went off to get a degree in aerospace engineering from Penn State and had the great opportunity to work at a couple different space companies on lots of advanced technology type projects programs. And I just really loved the opportunity to think about how space was really advancing humanity in all different ways, from protection, to connection, to developing technologies that we use here on earth.

[00:02:30] And with that, I actually got really involved with the science of food. And I started going to pastry school at night while I was work in aerospace. And I just fell in love with developing new pastries and the science of how butter and fat and sugar and flour and protein all work together in order to make new confections. And I actually left aerospace for four years and owned and operated a food truck in Philadelphia called Luscious Bakery. And it was so such a great opportunity to take science and entrepreneurship together and identify new market spaces. And I bring that experience with me to my job and my position now.

[00:03:09] Natalya: And we're gonna get to the food theme a little bit further down the road today because that actually doesn't form some of your work right now, some of the thoughts, and work that you do to the future of space.

[00:03:19] Jamie Landers: Yeah. Absolutely. I'm very passionate about sustainable agriculture, about developing new types of products and proteins. I mean, how that's gonna help us travel further into space and then develop a sustainable humanity back here.

[00:03:33] Natalya: And that is why today we are talking about space on main street. We are talking about everything that you said, everything we're doing up in space will resonate here at home in ways that we can't even imagine right now. But we'd like to explore that. So let's start with the idea of a new architecture and space. What does that look like? We're breaking the tyranny of lunch. We're working to do that one, launch at a time. We're gonna build colonies up there. What's those look like to you? And, and how do those colonies and the technologies that support them help build better earth?

[00:04:05] Jamie Landers: Yeah. I love thinking about civilizations off earth and how they're connected to our communities back here. We're gonna build a Moon base. We're gonna go to the Moon and we're gonna stay. We're gonna live and work harmoniously off earth as a global society. That's what's really thrilling to me. It's gonna take all of us. It's not just gonna be the United States or the European Union or the UK or Australia that are gonna be the space faring nations. It's gonna be a diverse and varied community of scientists, of communicators, of artists, really developing the future of a sustainable economy in a very harsh environment.

[00:04:43] I mean, if you think about that harsh environment experience helps us prepare for things like droughts, flooding, volcanoes, earthquakes, migration of people around the globe back here. And I really see us having not just the Moon base, but we'll have people living and working at far outposts, whether they're looking at the clouds of Venus or they're settling the new surface of a Martian environment and really figuring out how we connect all those individual civilizations so that they're not isolated. I very much care about how space connects us as a humanity.

[00:05:18] Natalya: And you say connect us, not just within the space economy, but connect that back to earth?

[00:05:24] Jamie Landers: Correct. Yeah. Imagine, you know, you're on a two-year mission to the Martian surface and you miss the smell of your mom making your favorite dish. What if not only you could video chat with her, but you could feel a hug from her? What if you could smell what she was cooking in that day? And in that moment, you don't feel as isolated? And that's all space technology that can connect us.

[00:05:48] So it's not just living in a virtual environment, but it's being able to experience each other on a different level. What if you needed surgery and you were hiking in Machu Picchu and you needed that connection and that low-latency data for a surgeon based in the UK to tell your surgeon what was the right procedure to do?

[00:06:07] So it's really about coming up together and creating that new human experience and spaces is that thing that connects us. It is that layer that architecture that is gonna create a new experience for everybody.

[00:06:20] Natalya: You're talking about a vast potential above us, but that is a hostile environment. How do we overcome that environment to get to that potential and to leverage it to make life better here on earth?

[00:06:33] Jamie Landers: I like to equate space to us exploring the oceans. [laughs] And that is because when I was very young, my dad took me to see Jacques Cousteau son give a talk about exploring the depths of the sea, and it is a super harsh environment. It is dark. It is cold. It is unknown. We have discovered creatures we never knew were there. Space is like that, too. Right?

[00:06:56] So we need new modes to do, new materials to do radiation shielding. If we wanna go to Venus, we wanna go to Mars, we wanna go beyond Mars, we're gonna have to protect humans from the radiation environment that's out there. So material science, additive manufacturing, new ways to develop technologies that are going to help us, not only in outer space in that harsh environment, but help us build sustainable housing back on earth.

[00:07:21] Imagine if you could build sustainable housing in a new mega urban area that was built in less time, with less waste, with lower cost, and could house humans in a communal environment where it's not you're just going to your apartment or your condo, but you're actually living and working in the same space with everybody for sustainability, vertical gardens, things like that. I just see that for the future, 'cause we're gonna do it outer space. And we're definitely gonna do it back here.

[00:07:51] Natalya: Walk us through a little bit of that vertical gardens, new materials. How is that even... How do we even begin to build that up in space?

[00:07:58] Jamie Landers: Yeah, that's all about curiosity for me. Right? So, I'm a huge coffee lover. And so one of the things I think about is, as I wake up on the lunar surface to go to work, the first thing that's gonna be on my mind is how do I make coffee? [laughs]

[00:08:15] Natalya: Some things never change. Right?

[00:08:16] Jamie Landers: I know. Exactly. And we use that as a jumping-off point to figure out what technologies we need to develop today in order to make that a reality.

[00:08:26] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:08:26] Jamie Landers: And so things like extracting oils in zero gravity-

[00:08:31] Natalya: Okay.

[00:08:31] Jamie Landers: ... is something we need to discover.

[00:08:33] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:08:33] Jamie Landers: Because when you're doing that espresso pull, it's using the oils from the beans that have been roasted in order to make that nice creme on top. And so we need to figure that out. And so we go off and we look at what are the technologies that we have today that are directly applicable? What are the things that we need to discover? What are the experiments that we need to do so I wake up in the moon in 15 years, I can have a cup of espresso.

[00:08:58] Natalya: 15 years?

[00:08:59] Jamie Landers: 15 years.

[00:09:00] Natalya: That's a pretty short timeline.

[00:09:01] Jamie Landers: Yes. I know. That's so exciting. Right? So [laughs] when you, when you think about the first woman and the next man who're gonna land on the surface in the moon, you know, in 2024 timeline-

[00:09:13] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:09:13] Jamie Landers: ... I mean, that's thrilling to me. I grew up in the shuttle era, watching people go to space all the time and do space walks, but I didn't get to see people walk on the surface of the moon. And I can't wait till that's a reality today. And I think we're really going to accelerate the infrastructure that we need to build on the lunar surface to make a civilization a reality. So we'll look at things at wireless power beaming if you want a lunar outpost. Right?

[00:09:40] Natalya: Can you explain a little bit about wireless power beaming?

[00:09:42] Jamie Landers: Yeah. This concept's actually been around for quite some time. I remember reading a magazine, like modern mechanics or something back in the early-2000s, talking about how, when you walk into your home, everything's gonna be powered wirelessly. We're still studying that technology today. And so harvesting the power of the Sun and transitioning that into something that we can beam across very large surfaces in order to power, lunar mobile vehicles, in order to do personal mobility, in order to power your home on the lunar surface.

[00:10:15] Natalya: We are here at Lockheed Martin partnering with GM-

[00:10:18] Jamie Landers: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:10:18] Natalya: ... on the newest lunar vehicle for the Moon. Do you see that technology informing how we build mobility here on Earth?

[00:10:25] Jamie Landers: Absolutely. I'm an early adopter. I have a electric vehicle because I believe we need to look at new energy sources in order to create a sustainable Earth environment. I think whatever we discover working with GM closely is gonna help inform the vehicles of the future. And I think personal mobility on Earth isn't just looking at cars and vehicles, mass transportation, right? Being able to move seamlessly from going to your home to work with one mode of transportation or maybe multiple.

[00:10:58] I think it's really exciting because that environment on the lunar surface, with all the regolith, and the rocks, and the dust is actually directly applicable to things that our agriculture and our farmers deal with today. So when you're sowing soybeans, it creates this ginormous dust cloud. And it's hard for your tractor to identify is it in the right row or is it actually sowing enough soybeans, because it creates this clog on the sensors. We're gonna deal with that on the lunar surface too. We're of deal with giant dust clouds. So being able to identify those dust clouds, characterize them, be able to mitigate them, that's directly applicable to what we do in agriculture today.

[00:11:41] Natalya: Jamie, everything you're talking about requires data. We build, infrastructure on the Moon. We roam around the moon on a new lunar rover. It's data handover fist. How do we harness that data? How do we apply it back to earth?

[00:11:53] Jamie Landers: Yeah. If you think about us as a species, we've been collecting data since the birth of our humanity. I think about the early explorers going out and tracking ocean tides. I think about people learning how to develop the first farms and stuff like that. And that's all data. And they shared that data through stories, right?

[00:12:12] Natalya: Narratives.

[00:12:12] Jamie Landers: Narratives-

[00:12:13] Natalya: Yes.

[00:12:13] Jamie Landers: ... and passing that down generation to generation. And when you told the next drive of Uber what worked well for you and what didn't, they aggregated that data with their own inputs and their own experience and created a new set of data and then shared that out. And it got better, but it was slow. Now with machine learning-

[00:12:31] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:12:31] Jamie Landers: ... with AI, with things like supercomputing in space, I think we're gonna see a great explosion, not just of the amount of data that we have, but how actionable that data becomes.

[00:12:44] Natalya: And that's the key, right? Actionable.

[00:12:47] Jamie Landers: That's right. I want us to stop being reactionary to the things that we can't control and instead create an action plan. So taking some of the great weather data that comes off of GOES and being able to aggregate that with ocean temperature, with melting polar ice caps, with migrations of animals, and being able to predict where you're going to either have a great growing season, or you're gonna have challenges, be able to predict when our population is gonna have to migrate from an area in Africa that is having challenges with drought and where can they settle.

[00:13:20] Even being able to protect our city infrastructure. So, you know, I'm from Boston, Massachusetts. I always think about, wow, it was so great to grow up very close to the ocean. But I remember like standing there in downtown Boston and standing at the edge of the ocean and think about what happens when the ocean rises, how do we protect our infrastructure that we already have in place? Or how do we adapt? Humans are so great at adapting. And I think data is gonna help us adapt quicker and smarter.

[00:13:52] So there's I think five or six mega cities globally right now. And that's over a threshold of a certain population. I think the adaptability is gonna be really important when we're developing the new mega cities of the future. I think about things like autonomous emergency vehicles, being able her respond when there is an accident.

[00:14:11] Imagine if you were having a stroke and you didn't know it, but your smart watch could notify an emergency vehicle and tell them where you are based on your location, very accurate in an urban area, and be able to call for help for you. And not just in mega city, but imagine if that's happening in a rural area. GPS and augmentation services have, have been able to identify lost hikers or hikers that are in distress. Imagine if we could use that information much more precise to be able to predict how to fight forest fires.

[00:14:44] Natalya: So knowing what you know about the potential of space because you work with it every day, understanding that this is probably gonna be one of humanity's greatest challenges, how do we become an off-Earth species and keep our greatest qualities of cooperation, and are open to new things? Can we cooperate up there and bring all that data back to earth and make life better for everybody?

[00:15:05] Jamie Landers: Yeah, I think we're starting to see that with the Artemis Accords. Everybody realizes that space needs to be sovereign to advance humanity. And that Earth is a precious resource. And that we either need to figure out how to sustain our environment, and not come off earth. Or what I like is the idea that we live and work together on and off Earth seamlessly.

[00:15:33] And I think what we'll start to see is the lines blur there. I think everybody understands that there is much to be gained from space. And we can only do that... It is so expensive still. It is so difficult still. It is out there that I think everybody realizes that we need each other. We need the dreamers, the philosophers, the artists, and the technologists to make that a reality.

[00:15:57] You know, I just came from an international conference last week where we were talking about building large pieces of infrastructure on orbit, without help from earth, right? And robotically and autonomously. And how one person is working on actually manufacturing, the pieces of material. And one person is working on the assembly of those materials. And another person is working on how we take that and turn that into a habitat.

[00:16:22] And out of all those three people, they were from three different nations. They had three different types of economies. And they are all concerned with how we each focus on individual pieces in order to make greater good.

[00:16:36] Natalya: Now, one of the parts of the community that we haven't really explored yet is robotics.

[00:16:41] Jamie Landers: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:16:41] Natalya: How smart are they gonna get? And how integrated into our society?

[00:16:44] Jamie Landers: They're gonna get is smart as humans are, I think, in the sense that we're the ones who program the robotics, right? And so we're the ones who help them understand when there's a problem. We're the ones who help them understand what are the tasks that they need to achieve. So I think about autonomous swarms on the lunar surface building new habitats, right?

[00:17:06] Natalya: Right.

[00:17:06] Jamie Landers: So autonomous construction vehicles, autonomous everything from dozers, to the ones that are building, the ones that are doing 3D additive manufacturing on the Moon, living and working autonomously by themselves.

[00:17:18] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Yeah.

[00:17:19] Jamie Landers: I don't need to be on the construction site, I don't need to be there, but I can be monitoring it from afar. And when there is an anomaly, the robot being able to stop, and go back and talk to you, and tell you what's happening and what they're seeing and wait for that human interaction and that human intervention. I think the robots are gonna help us explore deeper into space and build those civilizations quicker. I don't think they're ever gonna replace humans.

[00:17:44] Natalya: What does that mean for someone who's 18 right now? Could they become one of those people that goes up to space and starts managing swarms of robots?

[00:17:51] Jamie Landers: Absolutely. I think the robots are gonna help inform us, they're gonna help us work and operate in harsh environments, but they're never gonna replace the curiosity, the intelligence, and the forward-thinking of a human.

[00:18:04] Natalya: Everything you talk about, it means humans need to get up there quickly. And there's an economic stranglehold on that right now. What do you see changing that?

[00:18:12] Jamie Landers: What really excites me now is all the entrepreneurship around space. As an entrepreneur at heart, seeing all these wonderful space startups, being able to raise investment funds, we've seen historic levels of space companies go public in the last two or three years. 30 years ago, 20, 30 years ago when I entered the workforce, there were not space companies going public. So this is a whole new economy now.

[00:18:38] As a private investor, you can put your money behind a new rocket company. You can put your money behind somebody who's working to build robots in space. You can put your money behind somebody who's looking to explore Venus. I think that's very, very exciting. And I think that's breaking some of the stranglehold on the government. And department of defense being the ones that fund space exploration. And now you're seeing private citizens and venture capitalists who are very interested in creating those new economies in space.

[00:19:10] Natalya: Do you see a tipping point where it becomes as common to go to space as it is to go to the beach?

[00:19:16] Jamie Landers: I wish I went to the beach more. So...

[00:19:17] Natalya: [laughs]

[00:19:18] Jamie Landers: I hope so. You know, I, like I said, I was that precocious five-year-old. Just wanted to be an astronaut more than anything in my life. I think in my lifetime, that will be an opportunity. I don't know if I'll get to go to space as often as I go to the beach, but I hope so.

[00:19:34] Natalya: So it's, is a potential?

[00:19:35] Jamie Landers: It's a potential for sure. I think in the next 40 years, you're really gonna see that breakthrough. You're gonna see lots of citizens traveling to outer space for vacation, for artists, artistic opportunities.

[00:19:50] Natalya: Jamie, your career has been long in space and you've done a lot of looking at the future. We do that a lot here at Lockheed, all of the teams. Why do we do that?

[00:20:01] Jamie Landers: Yeah. We have a great heritage and legacy of understanding mission, really getting down to how do we provide value to our customers and to humanity in general. And I think in order to do that, you need to look forward as far as possible. So we identify what we want the future to look like. And we use that as a jumping-off point to walk back and say, what are the roadblocks to that? What are the technologies we need to develop today in order to make that a reality?

[00:20:30] And then we can invest our own dollars into that research and development for technology. We're not waiting for a government or a customer to say, why don't we give you the money to go fund this and do this? We wanna be the thought leaders. We wanna paint a strategic roadmap for that connected, compassionate, sustainable humanity of the future.

[00:20:51] Natalya: Are there a couple programs you could touch on in particular that you think are helping, that we are developing here at Lockheed that drive to that future?

[00:20:59] Jamie Landers: Yeah. I think the work that we're doing on smart cities is really important, making sure that individual communities or getting the value that they need from our systems. So whether that's protecting our infrastructure, for example, I read something astounding about the bridges in the United States and how it's a resource that we use every day, think about all the bridges you drive across, and how we do not have a good way to track and monitor and mend or repair those bridges. So what if we could combine space data with sensor data that we have here to rest really, and be able to identify when we need to repair or inspect those bridges further?

[00:21:39] Natalya: You're talking about remote sensing, right?

[00:21:41] Jamie Landers: Remote sensing. Yeah. And it's communication, it's remote sensing, and it's data aggregation.

[00:21:46] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:21:46] Jamie Landers: So it, it's a couple different technologies working in concert when... As I drive to work, I think about all the time that you spend sitting at a red light with nobody in sight, not another car, not a pedestrian.

[00:22:00] Natalya: [laughs]

[00:22:01] Jamie Landers: Right? What if we could make your life more efficient, root your commute signal to the red lights, identify when there is heavier traffic and do that and provide that in a heads up display? I still get astounded that my phone knows that I leave work about 5:30 every day. And they know when I'm on my to work, usually on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I stop at Starbucks.

[00:22:24] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:22:25] Jamie Landers: Because it routes me there. I don't ask it to.

[00:22:27] Natalya: Right. Yes.

[00:22:27] Jamie Landers: It routes me there. Now what if it could route me there and change the lights when there's nobody in sight?

[00:22:33] Natalya: I think they'd hold a parade in your honor if you could make that technology happen. [laughs] That's a great example and really hits home. Another thing that really hits home, you mentioned it earlier, is food. We know that they've been growing seeds on the International Space Station. What does food look like in the future with all that we're working on now to figure out how to grow it up in space? What does that look like for us?

[00:22:56] Jamie Landers: Yeah, this is such an exciting topic for me, not just 'cause of my culinary explorations, but when I was in fourth grade, I participated in the NASA Seeds Program. So those were seeds that were flown on the International Space Station and then delivered to school-aged children all around the country. And then they grew a control group versus the seeds that were flown in space.

[00:23:16] And that was kind of my entry into how space and food are really connected and how providing a sustainable economy is around the resources that we can give them. So air, food, water, the things that we need to sustain life. And I think about the challenges that agriculture has today, right? The workforce shortages-

[00:23:34] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:23:35] Jamie Landers: ... that we have dealing with droughts or floods or tornadoes or things like that, being able to identify how to have farms in urban areas so that you're not trucking tomatoes all the way across the country to feed people in New York City. You know, when there's a shortage of-

[00:23:49] Natalya: Food deserts, right?

[00:23:50] Jamie Landers: Yeah. Food deserts.

[00:23:51] Natalya: Yeah.

[00:23:51] Jamie Landers: And usually when we talk about food deserts, we talk about food deserts in urban areas.

[00:23:56] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. Is that where high-rise farms come in?

[00:23:58] Jamie Landers: Yeah, I think high-rise farms, I think new ways of farming. You know, hydroponics has been around for roll years, being able to identify drought-tolerant crops or being able to be clever about where and when we harvest, where and when we plant-

[00:24:13] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:24:13] Jamie Landers: ... and being able to identify and predict, again, there is that data, predict when we're going to need a booster crop, or when we are gonna need to cut back production on our dairy farms because we have a surplus. And being able to incentivize our farmers to do that I think is gonna be really important. And as we push off earth, it's a harsh environment. So figuring out how to grow high-density, food, lots of food in a small area with limited resources, and then identifying new materials that become consumables.

[00:24:43] Natalya: Hmm?

[00:24:44] Jamie Landers: So new proteins.

[00:24:46] Natalya: That's a game-changer. Can you tell us about that a little bit?

[00:24:50] Jamie Landers: Yeah. There's been some exciting technology out there about 3D printing protein. And I think that is so cool. I would love to try one of those three 3D printed steaks. But-

[00:25:00] Natalya: Do they exist yet or are they bought to exist?

[00:25:02] Jamie Landers: They exist today. So CES last year, so I, I believe it was 2021, that company was there and they actually 3D-printed protein that is supposed to resemble a rib-eye steak, supposed to look and smell and have the same texture and taste like a rib-eye steak.

[00:25:20] Natalya: And this would be the kind of food astronauts take with them?

[00:25:23] Jamie Landers: Yeah. Imagine taking a 3D printer that is able to 3D-print synthetic proteins.

[00:25:29] Natalya: And that could help solve food scarcity on earth.

[00:25:31] Jamie Landers: Yeah. I think we need to look at new alternatives for our food as we move into the future.

[00:25:38] Natalya: Everything you have touched on 3D steaks to remote sensing and how humans can respond to that, become more agile, more mobile, and more efficient in how they live their lives with the, the needs that they have. What does that look like, “a day in the life?” Now, we know that you've spent some of your career, you talked about having a team where you, you imagined a baseball game on the lunar surface. Can you walk us through that?

[00:26:02] Jamie Landers: Yeah. We have the great opportunity to develop what we call a thought leadership white paper about what a day on the lunar surface look like and all the technologies you need to make that a reality. And it's really fun. And it makes me [laughs] smile and laugh because it starts with me waking up on the lunar surface in my habitat, my sustainable habitat, creating that espresso that I talked about, making breakfast of synthetic protein and harvesting fresh vegetables from my vertical garden, getting ready for work. And that looks like dressing in a spacesuit.

[00:26:35] Natalya: I was gonna say spacesuit comes in here somewhere, right? Yes.

[00:26:38] Jamie Landers: [laughs] Yeah. Dressing in a spacesuit, but maybe not the tradition like 1980s shuttle spacesuits.

[00:26:44] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:26:44] Jamie Landers: And maybe even something a little more modern than what we've seen SpaceX put out in Blue Origin, but being able to have a personal environment where you can deal with the harsh radiation of space and the harsh environment. And then leaving my habitat and getting on high-speed transportation to go to the Lunar Outpost. So I'm a scientist in this [laughs] scenario, and I get on my tram with everybody else, and it's a magnetic tram, and it's high speed, and it takes me from my Lunar Outpost to the far side of the moon where I'm doing scientific research. And that commute only takes a few minutes. Where in a lunar rover, I wouldn't even have enough battery to get there and some way to get there.

[00:27:23] And then my day in science is a lot about data and collection and aggregation and construction and being able to relay and, that information, being able to aggregate that data and create actionable steps from it. You know, having lunch with my coworkers, right? That sense of community and during lunch. We talk about what it would be like to play baseball on the moon. Are the rules the same? How do we all get there? Wha- What is the money we use to actually pay for the ticket?

[00:27:52] Natalya: Do you need a bat? There's no gravity.

[00:27:54] Jamie Landers: Do you need a bat? I, if really space zero gravity really becomes that great athletic leveler, right?

[00:28:00] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative]

[00:28:00] Jamie Landers: So like can a common citizen who is not, does not have that athletic prowess play on a-

[00:28:07] Natalya: You hit a home run.

[00:28:08] Jamie Landers: ... professional baseball team? I think that would be so cool. And then kind of finishing up your day and getting back on that mass high-speed transportation and going to a coming unity and experiencing that together, whether that is an art show on the lunar surface. That's what I just love, is that the creativity is unbounded. And when you think about living and working on the moon or on a outpost or looking at the clouds of Venus, like what is it going to inspire us to do next?

[00:28:38] Natalya: I have a question about Mars. Isn't Mars even more of an environment that can sustain these activities.

[00:28:44] Jamie Landers: I think we're finding that through discovery.

[00:28:47] Natalya: Okay.

[00:28:47] Jamie Landers: So it's been really interesting to have the Mars Rover out there and InSight, collecting all that data and, and finding out how habitable Mars really is. I think right now, the challenge is it takes a long time to get there.

[00:29:01] Natalya: Mm-hmm [affirmative].

[00:29:02] Jamie Landers: Being able to protect those astronauts from the radiation and the time that it takes to get there. And also, being able to create new propulsion technology that can get us there much quicker. You know, we're investigating nuclear thermal propulsion and being able to use that nuclear thermal reactor in a safe way off earth in order to move us around from the Moon to Mars very quickly.

[00:29:25] Natalya: All of this takes human ingenuity beyond what we've ever employed before. When you wake up every day with the role that you have in this, what excites you the most about the future?

[00:29:36] Jamie Landers: My job is so fun. I know everyone at Lockheed thinks they have the most fun job, but my job, they call me the crazy idea lady or the what-if lady. My job really is to live and think in creative play. And we bound that in science, right? So we connect creativity, curiosity with entrepreneurship and technology. And that is just the center of the Venn diagram that I love to live in. And I am just so excited about seeing our future generations and what they're gonna come up with. And how they're seamlessly going to connect humanity and work together. And how empathetic and compassionate we're gonna become as a society in order for the betterment of the good and for sustaining us for generations and generations to come.

[00:30:27] Natalya: Jamie, thank you so much for your time today. I've been speaking with Jamie Landers about the future of space at Lockheed Martin.

[00:30:34] Jamie Landers: Thank you.

[00:30:35] Natalya: From taking a high-speed lunar train to your worksite on the Moon to playing a new form of baseball, the future of space will undoubtedly shape our future here on Earth. We'll be able to 3D print some foods and discover new ways to be more efficient with our food production. Imagine a world with remote sensors empowering AI to improve self-driving vehicles and hopefully solve traffic congestion. That leads us to Smart Cities.

[00:31:08] It's estimated more than 3 billion people live in a smart city right now, and it's projected that by 2030 that number will rise to more than 5 billion. So how will the future of space make smart cities, well, smarter? That just happens to be the name of our next episode, "Making Smart Cities Smarter."

[00:31:31] Host: You've been listening to Jamie Landers at Lockheed Martin and Jaimie is a space maker. Whether you're a software engineer, systems, engineer, finance, or HR professional, we need space makers like you to make the seemingly impossible missions a reality. Please visit this episode’s show notes to learn more about what you just heard in this episode or the careers available at Lockheed Martin. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe so others can find us and follow along for more out of this world stories. To learn more about our missions, products, and people, follow our new Twitter handle @LMSpace and visit lockheedmartin.com/space. Join us on the next episode. As we introduce you to more space makers.

[00:32:17] Space Makers is a production of Lockheed Martin Space.

It's executive produced by Pavan Desai.

Senior Producer is Natalia Oleksik.

Senior producer, writer, and host is Ben Dinsmore.

Sound design and audio mastered by Julian Giraldo.

Graphic Design by Tim Roesch.

Marketing and recruiting by Joe Portnoy, Shannon Myers, Mallory Richardson, and Stephanie Dixon.

A huge thanks to all the communication professionals at Lockheed Martin who helped make these stories possible.

Thanks for joining us and see you next time.